I know that... I only ever met one honest politician... he was in a plot in a cemetery up Rockhampton way. 

The bitch part was already in the joke...  just didn't have the heart to change anything when it rolled off the tongue... er, keyboard so smoothly.

Seriously, Gillard is no more a bitch than Avanda Manstones, Bronwyn Bishop or Gina Reinhart... they're all self-made women and all deserve all the criticism and/or compliments they get.  They're all public figures who have done their bit to fix or fuck things... and therefore are fair game. 

Do I like Gillard?  No!  But then I don't like the others, either.  Each has a despicable personality trait [just being a politician is enough for 3 of them] and none of them would blink an eye if any of us ordinary folk went guts up as a result of their behaviour/policies/practices.

And don't get me started on that bastard, lil Johnny.  He's more despicable than that lot put together... just to show I'm not [entirely] misogynist.

Ah politics, so much fun  

Anyway, to bring things back on topic, I just wanted to extend my most sincere congratulations to you, Vampothika and neone6. I hope one day to move to America so I can be with my beautiful Darcie on a permanent basis, instead of this seeing each other in the flesh when funds permit crap. Unfortunately there's a little something called DOMA (Defence Of Marriage Act) standing in our way. But things change everyday, and the day will come. Either that or we'll just say sod it and have her move over here to England.

Best wishes to you both, and may a truer love never be seen (apart from mine and Darcie's, of course, lol).

That discriminatory shit needs to die. If they really want to defend marriage, they need to outlaw divorce.

Agreed. On both points.

I wouldn't hasten to do that, Bebi. People can get to a point where it's better they be apart permanently. Marriage should not be enforced with jail. That makes no sense whatsoever. If people are free to wed, they should be free to dissolve that union unless they take vows not to dissolve it,  

Having two folks who have come to hate each other being forced to stay together or married sounds like the law makers would be providing a motive for murder.

No, what they need to do is make marriage a religious institution unrecognized by the state, and make civil unions the state equivalent of what marriage is now.  This should make both sides happy.  Then if you want both--a marriage in the presence of whatever higher power your religion happens to recognize, AND a state recognized civil union with all the tax benefits and legal rights to joint property, you'd just have to GET both. 

The problem as it stands now is that it's impossible to even hold a debate on the issue because both sides are using the same word, but not the same meaning.

Thanx Starcandy.  I´m still awake, but Kittys lying here sleeping ....She´ll probably have something nice to say tomorrow..

gosh, my way of thinking, marriage is licensed under civil law and therefore is protected by the second amendment. If you don't want two consenting adults to marry for whatever reason then to be fair; outlaw marriage.

So, if one's a Pastafarian, that means linguini with white clam sauce.

Well, at the very least, the ceremony needs to be performed by a guy in pirate costume.

Okay, so I do apologise to Vampothika and neone6. It wasn't my intention to have a debate about marriage break out on what is really a special thread for the both of you.

That said, allow me to state a few things. I do feel divorce is a necessity, for the reason that DrJBHL stated if nothing else. I have no wish to marry my fiancee "in the eyes of god", because I'm an agnostic. Marriage for me is purely about making a deeper commitment to her, and showing her just how much I love her. My fiancee has had MS for nearly three years, and we've been together for just over five-and-a-half years. That means I've seen her in the flesh before the MS has started to cripple her, and I've witnessed her slow degradation. As unbearable as it may possibly become, I want to be by her side regardless of what the disease does to her. I want to be there to pimp her wheelchair when it gets to the point where she needs one (I suspect she's going to want us to get all Steampunk on its ass).

If you want to get religious about it all, what god would frown upon two people loving and supporting each other as we do. I'm a mess mentally, she's a mess physically; we aren't spoiling another couple, y' know what I mean. It's not about sex, so there's no reason to use any Sodom and Gomorrah diatribe. There's more sex drive in roadkill than there is between my partner and I, my pills have made damn sure of that on my end. Besides, I've spent long enough on my own to know that sex isn't the important thing. Being able to fall asleep in the arms of the person you love is the important thing. Being able to grow as a person and grow old alongside somebody who helps to make life worth sticking around for; who helps to make you understand why the hell you're here on this floating rock. That's what is important. I'm not interested in tax breaks or legal rights. I just want to be with the woman I love; face to face, and hand in hand, instead of using a freakin' webcam and microphone all the time. I want to be able to stop feeling so damn useless when she's in pain, because I'm over three-thousand miles away from her. Last but not least, we want the right to be as bloody miserable as any hetero married couple.

To know that we are denied the possibility of being together because of a piece of paper called DOMA, and a book containing the word of a deity that can create the universe and everything within it, yet can't write this book in the first place, and entrusts that duty to a massively flawed and confused species; well that just makes me want to wretch in anger.

Speech over... here's Tom with the weather!

Pay me fare an' I'll be only too 'appy ta do it... AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

Oh, n' thar needs ta be lashin's o' food n' a cask o' rum as well.....

.... and anybody wot objects ter this ere union, speak now and ye'll  see tha point end o' me cutlass.

..... and today we will have a high of 42c, low level fog and a chance of burgers and fries.

Seriously, Helen, you come across as a very lovely person and I truly hope your dream is fulfilled to be with your loved one.

On a related note http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523

Thanks Starkers, I hope it happens too. But considering my hopes can only be realised by politicians, judges and the population that created DOMA in the first place, I'm not holding my breath.

thanks starcandy xxx